In Sweden it is possible...

I had this talk with Kerstin (the name is changed by her wish) quite by chance. Her spouse works in the Embassy of Sweden in Russia. I fixed an interview with her husband who spent many years in our country and was well informed about the activity of feminist organizations both in Sweden and here in Russia. But when I came to their place I saw a frail, bird-like woman of about forty instead of a man I was going to interview. She looked deeply embarrassed to tell me in broken Russian that her husband was kept by some business and could not warn me as he did not have my phone number. I could not hide my disappointment – Kerstin and her husband were to leave Moscow two days later, and I would not have any other chance to speak to him. Besides, I was reluctant to get back out into the frosty streets after long wanderings in search of the house. Therefore I gratefully accepted Kerstin invitation to have a cup of tea and warm myself a bit. Still hoping to hear something interesting, I asked Kerstin to tell about herself.

- By profession I am a philologist and a journalist. My student years fell on the 70-s when the youth in Sweden and basically all Europe was carried away by radical alternative movements – hippies, greens, the left, feminists. Now everything changed, but at that time we were all desperate idealists, protested against the Vietnam war, in general were ready to perform exploits in favor of some ideas and not our well-being. Today’s young people are much more sober, career-oriented, aiming at personal success. They have seen crises and are therefore less trustful and romantic than we were. Our childhood and adolescence coincided with the period of uncommon economic rise. Each year our life became better and better. It seemed it should be that way and would go on forever.

I was not so radical as many of my friends rebelling against the values of the older generation were. My father taught in a university and, unlike the parents of my friends, was well acquainted with the works of Marx, Engels, other ideologists of the «left» movement. «These ideas are very reasonable», he used to say, «and that is rubbish!» He was not that easy to «stack on his shoulders» in an ideological dispute. In the student environment the enthusiasm for the radical left ideas caused respectful attitude to any labor, which was, to my mind, a positive asset. We were not ashamed of any work, even the most lowly of it. For example, I worked as a cleaner. It was almost prestigious for a student to work part-time, it was practiced even by people from very well-off families, though you could make your living without work or your parents’ help – the scholarship was enough.

I spent very little time working by profession. I married at 22, had children. There are four of them now. But my relationships with my husband did not shape well. He was a man from a blue-collar family, and the difference in upbringing, culture and education was too large. For instance, I had a fluttering attitude to books. We had a very humble income, could afford little, but I never regretted spending money on books. Each time I bought a new one, he was perplexed, «Why, in your house all cases are stuffed with books! Isn’t that enough? You’d better buy something for the kids!» In the end we decided to part.

- Wasn’t it scary to be left alone with four small children?

- Of course it was difficult. But in Sweden it is possible. Divorce is always a drama at the personal level. I was tormented by the feeling of guilt in the face of my children. Besides, I had to abandon my career. You must know what the work of a journalist is like – constant travelling, sleepless nights. Of course, I had a part-time work on the radio, wrote for newspapers from time to time, but mainly spent my time with the children. Three elder ones went to school, the youngest one – to a kindergarten. But then I started having problems with my daughter: she was easily agitated, was aggressive, and I was recommended to consult a psychiatrist. Nevertheless, I decided for myself that she was all right – the reason was in us behaving like lunatics. I resumed my work as a cleaner, this time in a church near school, and took the girl with me after classes. She was spending much time in the church with me, and little by little her sharp edges smoothed.

- Did your parents offer any help?

- My mother used to come and help form time to time. But in our country women work until they are 65, that’s why they don’t have much time to nurse grandchildren. And at that time my father fell seriously ill, and mother had to take care of him. In general, that was a hard period for me. Though one should say that in Sweden it’s easier to go through such a situation that in Russia. In our country if the spouses divorce the law obliges them to take equal part in the upbringing of children. The children of the broken families often live part of the time with their father, part of the time with mother. But it was difficult to organize with us having four of them.

- And what about their father’s financial help?

- Of course we got some help, but not too much due to his small salary. Do I get it right that in your country if a woman gets the children after divorce, financial support wholly depends on her ex-husband’s goodwill?

- Juridically it is not strictly so. A woman can sue for alimony. But unfortunately this system is not working because many people, especially the ones working in the private sector, conceal their actual incomes. The legal income of a former spouse (which is the base of the alimony) is usually ridiculously low, while «black cash» can’t be traced in any way. So in reality the man himself usually makes the decision concerning the amount of money to give to support his children. To my mind, it would be much more reasonable to introduce an acceptable social norm for the alimony. A divorced parent should be obliged to pay this sum, in spite of his official income.

- We have just this kind of system in Sweden. There exists a social norm of a child’s support. If a parent is in financial straits at the moment and is not able to pay the stated sum (in my case with four children the sum was substantial!), then the obligations are taken by the state. In other words, I could get the alimony for my children directly from the state, and the state would grant my ex-husband a tied credit which it would later enforce from him. I did not use this scheme at that time, and it’s a pity!

- In other words, if the children stay with you after divorce and your ex-husband is unable to pay enough to support them, the state gives him a kind of credit to redeem his debt owed to the children. In this case he has a possibility to pay back by the long-term installment .Both you and your former spouse are dealing with the state and not with each other, and that saves you both unnecessary trouble. An excellent system! So simple and still providing full protection for the children!

- It is the policy of our state. After the Second World War in which Sweden fortunately did not take part, we entered a period of economic expansion. We were in sharp need of hands. Then the state worked out a strategy aiming at two things at once: first, attracting women to productive labor, and second, boosting the birthrate. After a wide network of preschool establishments appeared, the number of housewives in Sweden decreased dramatically. When the government passed the bills protecting family and childhood, we had practically no more need of children’s homes.

If you are acquainted with the books of our remarkable writer Astrid Lindgren, you can trace by her books the development of ideas concerning children’s upbringing in Sweden. One of her early works, «Peppy Longstocking» reflects the views formed in the post-war years when the society realized the necessity of giving children a chance for self-expression, avoiding hard discipline. And the latest story – «Ronya the Robber’s Daughter»; remember mother singing when giving birth to a baby? The author plays up the new attitude to the process of delivery which is becoming more and more popular over the last years.

- Do you mean the idea of home deliveries, water births?

- In general, yes. By the way, our fathers are always present at the birth of their children.

- Is it also a law?

- No, but it’s an unwritten rule. If you break it, you will raise eyebrows. Broadly speaking, Swedish men have very fluttering attitude to children. Our male politicians do not hesitate to demonstrate themselves in the role of fathers, just the opposite, it is one of the essential components of an image of a good politician. For example, one of the leading Swedish politicians who took part in the UN mission during the Kosovo conflict and was going though divorce at that particular time, brought his children to Kosovo to show how serious the situation was there. He wanted to explain why they could not stay with him at the moment. Can you imagine one of the Russian politicians doing anything of the kind?

But as I have already said, such attitude to children is the result of the consistent strategy which has been followed by our state since the 70-s, if I am not mistaken. I recall that at that time it became very popular to take children anywhere you went, including sucklings. Among the radical youth, especially hippies, breast-feeding in public was considered perfectly natural, and nobody was shocked or surprised by it. Little by little such attitude grew into a norm, and even women working in the Parliament used to bring babies to the sessions ad breast-feed them.

- What do you think of the role of feminist organizations in forming this kind of state policy?

- In the 70-s we had a lot of radical feminist groups constituted by very energetic women. In the 80-s many of them switched to research work, became the heads of scientific schools, leading periodicals. Then some of them came to the government. It seems to me that our state leaders followed a perfect tactics: instead of having these women in strong opposition, they gave them possibilities to realize their ideas practically and thus turned them into allies.

In other circumstances our talk could go on and on. But it was clear that slamming doors, the noise of furniture taken out and other attributes of the oncoming move were wearing Kerstin out. We exchanged hearty good-byes, and I dived into the frosty Moscow night again. With me I was taking the warm handshake of a small Swedish woman and my stiffened belief in the fact that the state can be organized naturally and sensibly, providing help for all those who need it and normal conditions of life and work for all the rest. Besides, I was recalling the words of Kerstin’s husband: «We had no «kind» policy. The result we have today – equality, acknowledgement of the value of human life, serious attention to the social questions – is the consequence of the struggle of Swedish women, their good organization and their known disposition to compromise».

Interviewed by Julia Kachalova

If you would like to know more about the Swedish model of the «socialism with a human face», about the relationships between men and women in this country, what «Swedish family» is, what the life of Swedish women (journalists, businesswomen, politicians) is like – what ideas they share, what their achievements are and how they came to them – you are welcome to a fascinating book by Nadezhda Azhgikhina(*) «Granddaughters of Vikings at their Home». By the author’s permission we publish a small fragment of this book.

(*)Nadezhda Azhgikhina – a journalist, writer, columnist in «Nezavisimaya Gaseta», co-chairman of the Women-Journalists Association.