"Nobody Needs So Much Protection Today As Civil Population of Chechnya"

Kenneth Glarck came to Russia in 1990 as a free journalist. Recently he has been to Chechnya and Ingushetia as a member of the "Medecins Sans Frontieres" international humanitarian organization. I met Kenny on 29 December in the Moscow office of the organization and asked to tell me about its activity in the Chechen Republic, about his personal perception of what is going on in Chechnya. We were talking for about an hour and agreed to meet after the holidays and then I should show him the material. Moscow was in fever with pre-New year fuss, but Kenny was going to Chechnya again. He gave me his telephone number in Nazran and his mobile number in case I needed to make some details more precise before his coming back. On 10 January, when I was going to show Kenny the decoding of our interview, I found out that he had not returned from Chechnya. His colleagues, members of international and Russian humanitarian organizations, which conduct their mission in hot places, Russian and foreign communities - all are anxious about his fate. Kenny told me that as a member of the famous international organization he felt protected because if anything happens the organization will react. This is true. His disappearance caused a stormy reaction of many people and I hope that, in the end, it will help him return to us.

But for the time present our talk turned out to be Kenneth Glarck's last interview before his disappearance, And I hope that its publication will draw the attention of the society to what is going on in Chechnya.

Corr.: What exactly does "Medecins Sans Frontieres" do in Chechnya?

K.G.: We support 22 medical institutions there. Our assistance includes supplying with medicines and different kinds of reconstruction work. Now in winter a lot of medical institutions in Chechnya are without heating. We set up temporary heating in pediatric, maternity and surgical departments, as well as in traumatic surgery to provide at least minimum conditions for people to pass the winter.

Corr.: Do you think that reconstruction processes in Chechnya are very slow?

K.G.: There are no processes at all. A year ago I was in the Urus-Martan hospital. It was awfully cold and dark there, there was a complete lack of medicines. Not long ago I happened to be there again - there were no changes. Form my talk with the deputy chief physician I understood that the situation had became even worse comparing with that of a year before. Then there was a hope for stabilization. Now there is none… There seems no war, the territory has been under Russian control for 9 months, but hospitals don't receive even medicines.

When I say there is no war, I just repeat what is written in newspapers. In those medical institutions that our organization helps we gather common statistical data: sickness rate, death rate, etc. It is evident from them that the flow of war injuries has not stopped, and in most hospitals they are the main component of death rate. That is why it is not proper to say that the war is over. May be it is over from the political point of view but for population the war is going on, its victims are, first of all, children, women and old men. Artillery bombardments still happen so far, and I must say quite often in inhabited areas. It means that those who use arms do not observe even the elementary duty to avoid inhabited areas. Doctors think that few people are interested in losses of civil population. And it is threatening. It has become an ordinary thing for doctors to have patients with traces of beating and electroshock tortures. People are arrested during combings, arrested at sentry posts and when they are released they very often go to hospital with rib fractures and head injuries. Besides, doctors themselves suffer from such harsh treatment. There was an example when an old cardiologist was thrown into a pit. For what it was not known. A cardiologist of over 60 is not likely to be a guerilla.

Corr: Does your organization work in big cities or in small inhabited places?

K.G.: We support 4 medical institutions in Grozny, 4 more central district hospitals, Argunsk town hospital. Other medical institutions are small hospitals and dispensaries all over the Chechen territory.

Corr.: Is there any difference in condition of people in different municipalities in Chechnya?

K.G.: There is some difference between a town and a village because people who live in the country have more opportunities to reconstruct destroyed farms and live further. And you cannot keep cattle in town, cut hay, that is why it is more difficult to survive in town. It is much more difficult to rebuild buildings. It is easier to repair a private house than a flat in a condominium.

Corr.: Do you have a feeling of any state authority presence in the republic?

K.G.: One can't feel any authority presence in hospitals. Each hospital lives by itself and tries to survive. Doctors and nurses work for months without any salary. They just want the authority to do at least the simplest things: to pay salary, to provide elementary conditions - heating and light, but what is more important that there will be no more arresting and shooting.

Corr.: Do you feel the presence of military forces?

K.G.: Military forces are everywhere. Sometimes it seems funny - you drive a kilometer - see a blockpost, two more kilometers - one more blockpost, and so on. We feel more or less protected as members of an international organization, in case of need our organization will react. We just show our documents at blockposts and argue our right to pass. But for population these blockposts are a regular catastrophe. How can a man take up agriculture if to get to his field he has to go through several blockposts, to get to the market - not less than ten of them. And they say these blockposts are not free. What should people, who are on the edge of surviving, do?

Corr.: You were in Chechnya during the first Chechen war. How has the spirit of the population changed since that time?

K.G.: Then in 1995 there was much more hope. People thought that the war would end and life would become normal. Now this hope has worn out. The feeling that people are terrorized has become more acute. In the present war there are much more combings, arrests, which can affect everybody. People say that during the first war they just fought, and now they are busy with something that reminds terrorism against civil population. It is not war, it is extermination, that is why it is much more difficult to stand this war.

Corr.: Does anybody understand what this war is for?

K.G.: Nobody understands. Everybody asks. Even I am asked. They think that if I am a foreigner, then it is clearer for me.

Cor.: I know you worked in Africa, where there is a war going on for many years. Can you draw parallels with Chechnya?

K.G.: Yes, I worked in Liberia, in North and South Sudan. There the war is much more chaotic, they don't use hard artillery, bombarding. To my mind, parallels with Africa are not quite appropriate. In Liberia the war was going on against the background of the state falling to pieces, which, in the end, ceased existing. The Russian Federation is, on the contrary, rich and well-organized, with good educational system and high technology. Moscow is a well developed civilized city. That is why, what is going on in Chechnya seems to me even more awful. There, where it be responsible for what is going on. This question - "who must be responsible for everything" - is constantly asked to me in Chechnya.

Corr.: How reliably do the mass media reflect the situation, which you watch when you come to Chechnya?

K.G.: I don't watch much of the local news, but I know the Chechens' reaction. They say that entirely another war is shown and find very little resemblance between what they watch on TV and the surrounding reality. I talked to doctors in Batogy who watched a program, if I am not mistaken, on RPT about reconstruction of a medical sector in Chechnya. But they, in their local hospital, haven't received a single pill from the state for the whole year. For nine months they haven't received salaries. All medicines that were delivered to them were rendered by humanitarian organizations including Russian ones. But on the part of the state they have received nothing. So what reconstruction are they speaking about?

Corr.: There is the Ministry of Health of the Chechen Republic. How do the local officials account for such a sad state of medical institutions?

K.G.: In a very simple way. There is no money and nowhere to receive it from. When everything is destroyed in the republic it is just a mockery to speak about local resources. And nothing comes from federal ones. Chief physicians often ask one and the same question: "Why have they found resources to bombard the town even in a more cruel way than during World War II. Besides, it is quite an expensive thing, not every state can afford it. So why don't they find medicines for local hospitals?" This is a simple doctors' logic but how can one answer it? To make it clear in what condition the hospitals are I shall show you some pictures. Here they are. This is, for example, the 9th town hospital - the main medical institution in Grozny. And It works.

Corr.: How? Without windows and doors?

K.G.: Windows and doors! - There are no even walls in many places! We brought in a comparative order the surgery department. The second floor already functions. Doctors work there though there had been no heating before mid-December. Some hospitals, they are quite rare, started receiving medicines somewhere in November. Not a single kopeck is spent on major repairs. Chief physicians try to save their hospitals by fair means or foul. I don't know, perhaps, money from the federal budget comes but it doesn't reach the place of destination. It can be stated firmly. It is unlikely that the Russian authority is incapable of controlling the money transfer. In Russia there is an efficient bureaucratic system, which, if it wishes, can function excellent. And if it fails then we deal not with lack of organization and negligence but with lack of will.

Corr.: What do you think about capturing the heads of guerillas, about which it is constantly being spoken on TV and who, in no way, can be captured?

K.G.: I am not a military man, I refused to serve in the army and never dealt with military questions. And what people say in reference with it… Well, people say: "Why was my house bombarded? Here terrorists have never lived, here only children and old people have lived. Why should I suffer because you are looking for somebody?!" Here is a picture of Grozny, taken form a satellite. You see that whole districts are taken down. People, who lived in these houses, ask: "Why should I lose my house, relatives, children only because you have a problem? Who is responsible for it?" Everybody asks this question. If Russia considers Chechnya a part of it, then Chechen people have the same rights as the others have. And sanctity of the home, property and life must be the same as the other citizens of the Russian Federation have. But nobody knows the quantity of civil losses in Chechnya. We hear about losses among military men every day, but nobody counts losses among civil population. I remember an old man said when we wanted to restore the roof in the out-patience department: "We can do it ourselves. But you do so that they will not bombard us any more. We shall repair the roof, buy medicines. But you protect us from bombs because the rest are trifles." But we are unable to render assistance, which people need most of all, we are not a law-enforcing body but a medical organization. Though we are often objected to: "Medicine has nothing to do with it. Medicines will not help if there is a problem of tortures." The population of Chechnya needs not so much the assistance we render now but they need much more protection from cruelty. The Chechen population needs protection more than anybody else now.